The Mieza Book Club

• New to the Mieza Book Club? Read the Introduction here
• Minutes of the previous meetings can be read here

Orestes: The Young Lion by Laura Gill

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Chapters 20 - 25
We are now halfway through Laura Gill’s book Orestes: The Young Lion. Agamemnon is dead and Orestes is about to flee from his home.
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For The Record

• Amyntas of Pella and Amyntas of Aegae were not late to this meeting but did spend too long at the bar talking to the barman; in accordance with club rules, they lost the right to contribute to the discussion.
• Please note, the transcript contains “spoilers”.

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Peucestas
Club Secretary
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Minutes
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Seleucus So, chapters 20 - 25. A jolly tense time for Orestes. Serious things happen in these chapters, and it all starts with the murder of the tracker. I liked the suddenness of it; the fact that it really was ‘that easy’.
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Leonnatus I agree that Gill’s handling of it was impressive. I have to say, though, I found Orestes’ assertion that because it is it easy to kill a man, life is, therefore, cheap, not only illogical but a fundamentally depressing moment. Indeed, I had to stop reading for a good half hour at that point and take a walk in the garden. Still, it gave me an excuse to smoke a little of my Old Hundredth.
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Seleucus Silver linings, dear boy, silver linings.
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Leonnatus Well, indeed. Obviously, I got over it quickly enough; tears are for women, stoicism is for chaps.
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At this point, Amyntas of Pella said we should put Leonnatus’ assertion to the vote as some might find it controversial in this day and age. The members agreed. It was passed 9 - 0 ( the barman was picking up empty glasses from the table and also voted).
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Leonnatus I am glad you all agree. The reason I found Orestes’ assertion to be fundamentally depressing was because his words were not the kind a chap says then forgets. Rather, they are the kind that sit upon a fellow’s soul and influences how he behaves in the future. Of course, when the words are positive, all is well, but I should not like to be the subject of a king who thinks that life is cheap.
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Theban Al You make a good point, Leonnatus; but remember, Orestes is only twelve; there’s plenty of time for him to grow up, psychologically as well as physically.
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Leonnatus Yes, that is true, although is not the child the father of the man?
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Theban Al To a point; but again, remember that although Orestes speaks unwisely, the fact that he feels pain over what happened surely shows that he is not a budding psychopath. Obviously, it is not nice to see him in pain, but still, it gives us hope that he’ll grow up ‘alright’.
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Harpalus In terms of violence, we certainly had a rough ride this time round. Chapter Twenty saw the tracker get brained, then in Twenty-One Orestes himself is beaten up rather soundly by the second tracker.
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Seleucus I’m sure I do not need to propose a vote on who winced when Orestes’ wound was cauterised.
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Loud murmurs of approval from the members; no dissenting voices.
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Meleager I must confess I had no idea a wound could be closed that way.
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Harpalus That is just what I was going to say! Good God, it must have hurt.
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Meleager And poor old Timon! When Orestes saw him lying there, I thought, ‘hello, the old boy has been stabbed; he’s not going to make it to the end of the book’.
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Peucestas You must have been very relieved when it turned out that he was not badly injured.
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Meleager Rather. However, ever since then, I have been fighting the urge to turn to the back of the book to see if he is mentioned. I think he will be killed off. He is like the wise man that appears in fantasy novels to guide the hero. But one day, Orestes won’t need him - or he’ll need him at a critical moment - and Timon will be cut down because ultimately the hero must make it on his own.
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Seleucus By George, Meleager, you have thought about this; although, is there a necessity for the wise man figure to die? But that’s another matter. I agree that he will get killed off at some point.
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An open discussion (i.e. everyone talking at once) on this point ensued. After I had brought the meeting to order, we took a vote on ‘will Timon be killed?’ It ended 4 - 4.
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Harpalus Moving on to the next chapter [i.e. Chapt. 22], I was very interested by what Spheros the soldier had to say about the ‘terrors’ that reside in his head. Unless I have read it totally wrongly he is talking about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
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Peucestas That is how I read it.
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Harpalus Well! At first, I was very surprised by Spheros’ admission: An Ancient Greek suffering from PTSD - whoever thought of that? But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, ‘why not?’; yes, they led hard hard lives, and were no doubt mentally tougher than us as a result, but they were not supermen; they cried just like we do; of course they could suffer from stress. This is why fiction can be so valuable. It may be made up but it can contain truths that history books miss. Or that I miss when reading history books!
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Meleager What did you make of Strophius’ attempt to heal Orestes of his PTSD?
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Harpalus You mean the religious rite?
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Meleager Exactly so.
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Harpalaus Well, I suppose like any good rationalist, I feel sorry that Orestes didn’t have a therapist to talk to. Having said that, I would be surprised if the saying, ‘a problem shared is a problem halved’ does not predate the Age of the Enlightenment. But even if it doesn’t, I think one would have to be a fairly mean minded sort of fellow to denigrate what Strophius does just because one does not believe in the existence of the Greek gods. The point is - and it is the only relevant point, here - he was helping Orestes according to his measure. That is to say, according to his lights. One can never ask a chap to do more than that.
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Seleucus I can’t imagine anything more irrational than looking down on people simply because they think differently to us. Of course, their views may turn out to be deficient, but that is another matter.
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Leonnatus If I can go back to the palace courtyard in Krisa, and this is related to the PTSD issue, I wanted to speak to the anxiety that Orestes’ feels after cheeking the self-important scribe. I wish I had made notes before then to back up my point but it was here that I thought, ‘Orestes is living under a cloud of constant anxiety now; not just in his waking moments but dreams, too. The lad will be lucky to avoid a nervous breakdown at this rate’.
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Peucestas I know what you mean. In that light, the appearance of Anaxibia and Strophius was very well timed. Although when the bard started singing the song of Agamemnon’s death I shook my head!
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Leonnatus You say Strophius’ appearance was welcome but I harbour reservations about him. I didn’t like how he took Orestes’ ring. That just spells trouble.
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Meleager Now that you mention it, he was behind Pylades’ marriage to Elektra, wasn’t he? He clearly has his eye on the main chance - Agamemnon’s throne. In other words, he is nicer than Aegisthus - a lot nice, to be fair - but still a politician. Orestes needs to be careful!
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Seleucus Speaking of being careful, perhaps now is the moment to discuss Orestes and Aktaia, the ‘pretty attendant’…! Well, who saw that coming?
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Peucestas Oh, Seleucus.
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Meleager There was no need for that!
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Seleucus What? Oh! I apologise. Please let that be recorded, Peucestas. Pun most certainly not intended.
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Leonnatus I shall speak to this issue. Firstly, I congratulate Ms Gill on her interpretation of the scene, for aren’t sex scenes supposed to be really difficult to write? Writing one involving a twelve year old boy and thirteen or fourteen year old girl must be even harder on account of the current belief that sex between juveniles - teenagers - is wrong.
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Seleucus I see what you are saying there, and maybe it was hard for her. If it was me, though, I would reply, ‘I am a writer, my sole duty is to write this scene truthfully. I have no duty to worry about society’s opinions, so therefore, it can go hang’. It would be a first class fool who thought that a writer believed everything that they wrote about. Ms Gill would be a blood crazed maniac if that were so. Well, maybe she is but we cannot extrapolate that from her book.
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Harpalus Moreover, do we - as a society - really think that sex between juveniles is wrong? I mean, many of us may say that it is, but we don’t raise our voices when companies sell clothing that sexualises children; or when our underage daughters wear skimpy clothing to wear when they go out with their friends; or when schools give students advice about sex and gives them contraceptives; or when newspapers publish photographs of topless women and men’s magazines of hardly dressed models; or when Hollywood films sex scenes that have no narrative value but plenty of shots of the nude actors, and so on. We say one thing but do another.
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Seleucus Yes, it is hypocritical.
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Harpalus Deeply so, deeply so. Western civilisation should be honest and either say, ‘we stand for a sexualised society from childhood to death’, or, ‘we stand for a society where sex has its place but not before time and not at the cost of anyone’s dignity’
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Seleucus Which would you propose as the better course?
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Harpalus The latter.
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Seleucus In light of that, what do you think of Gill’s sex scene?
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Harpalus Well, building upon what you said a moment ago, I think she writes it very truthfully, and very sensitively.
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Seleucus Very well. Now, you have proposed a society where we - at the very least - tread carefully when telling young people about sex. Would you restrict access to, or withhold this book from, your twelve, thirteen or fourteen year old?
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Harpalus Absolutely not! Orestes is literature. It tells us not only a story but something about the human condition. It is vital that anyone who is able reads it, and other books like it. Permitting our children to wear sexualised clothing, giving them condoms ‘just in case’, or buying so called “lads’ mags” is not only not vital but asking for trouble - which we affect to be surprised at when we get.
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Peucestas I agree with you in regard clothing and lads’ mags but with condoms, the fact is that after adolescence, children are liable to have sexual encounters with one another. That is not something we can or should ignore. Orestes shows how easily it can happen. Surely giving them condoms is simply a pragmatic way of dealing with the possibility/probability.
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Harpalus Pragmatism is sometimes overrated. It is pragmatism that brings about Agamemnon’s murder.
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Peucestas But also Timon’s decision to accompany Orestes north.
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Harpalus True, so the key is to discern, ‘when is pragmatism the best course, and when is it not?’ rather than simply use it hypocritically. Certainly, we should look after our weaker brethren, that is to say, the one whose resistance to sex is small, but we should do nothing that suggests to him that while we say one thing - “You are too young for sex” - we mean another - “Here is a condom, anyway” which really means ‘I don’t want you to have sex but I’m prepared for you to have it, anyway’.
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Seleucus And all this from two scenes that are over nearly as quickly as they begin!
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Leonnatus Just like sex for no few men, I hear!
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Laughter among the members; pipes relit and beer sipped.
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Seleucus Indeed! We must round things up now. I wanted to highlight the mention of the priestess’ snake tattoos. I always imagined tattoos as belonging to barbarians; I didn’t know Greeks went in for them.
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Meleager My favourite scene was in Chapter Twenty - the escape from the Royal Palace. I’m very glad that Gill did not just have Orestes make a mad dash for it but had to organise it properly. Well, I know Timon did, but you take my point.
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Peucestas On that note, I was impressed by the advice that Doryklos. Very simple, very detailed, very true. Reminded me of Tolkien in a way.
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Leonnatus The recalcitrant fisherman made me laugh!
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Seleucus Another occasion when Gill sells us a dummy. I never expected the first tracker to be killed so quickly and I never expected the fisherman to throw the gold back at Timon. I really thought he would grumble but take them!
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Theban Al I would like to say something about accents. Spheros has an Arcadian accent. Whenever I go abroad the one thing I never consider is that other countries, just like us, have regional accents. It was a lovely piece of verisimilitude.
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Peucestas On that point, gentlemen, we are out of time. Thank you for this discussion. Whose round is it?
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Mieza. Aristotle’s ‘classroom’ and some English chaps’ library

• Orestes: The Young Lion is available to buy in various formats. Here it is at Amazon.
• If you know of a book that the Mieza Book Club should read, let us know in the comments box

• Read the Introduction to the Mieza Book Club here
• Thee previous minutes of the Mieza Book Club can be found here

Orestes: The Young Lion
by Laura Gill
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Chapter Ten to Nineteen
Welcome to the edited transcript of the Mieza Book Club’s latest meeting; for more information about the club, please follow the link above. At our last meeting, we read chapters 5 - 10 of Orestes: The Young Lion. It seems we enjoyed chapter ten so much we read it again for tonight. It definitely wasn’t because the club secretary forgot that we didn’t need to, and advised everyone accordingly.
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Ahem.
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Moving quickly on. The club met at 7:30pm in the Golden Lion pub garden. Members were asked if they had their copies of Orestes: The Young Lion with them. For the third week running, Amyntas of Pella and Amyntas of Aegae didn’t, so were voted by a show of hands to be tonight’s designated drivers. Amyntas of Pella sulked. Yet again.
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Before I finish, Seleucus, the club president has asked me to make you aware that the transcript contains ‘spoilers‘. This is not a term I had heard of before as I do not often use the world wide web but I gather it means that we reveal elements of the plot. You have been warned!
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Peucestas
Club Secretary
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Minutes
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Seleucus
So, Ten to Nineteen. What powerful chapters they were! Three weeks ago I commented on how Ms Gill portrayed the death of Iphigenia; as I recall, it happened very suddenly. Well, for me, so did the death of Hippasos [Chapt. 13 - CS]. There I was reading the book in my room, I had settled into a nice rhythm of reading when BANG. He was dead, and I was dumbstruck. Please remember to use the Oxford comma when you write that down, Peucestas.
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Theban Al
I saw it coming. Or, at least, thought I did. When the king bull started to charge, I thought, “Hullo, Alastair, this lad’s for it’; but then, he got up, and I thought, ‘Ah, Laura Gill fooled you there’. But then, the blood ‘blossomed’ - what a great choice of word! - on his tunic and he collapsed and died. Ms Gill fooled me twice in one minute. Good show.
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Seleucus
Theban Al, you are right; I think I had got lazy and was not paying proper attention to what I was reading. Well, that scene certainly woke me up if so.
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Harpalus
My abiding memory of chapters ten to nineteen will be the way in which Ms Gill weaves in the events of The Iliad - from the references to Agamemnon taking Briseis and the consequences thereof to the wooden horse and the destruction of Troy at the end. I thought she did jolly well, there. It must be very difficult writing well known historical events into a book without making them appear shoehorned or somehow false.
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Meleagar
Leaving aside the issue of The Iliad‘s historicity, and the fact that the wooden horse is not in Homer’s poem, I agree. Like Orestes, though, I wish we had been permitted to see more of Agamemnon in, what, chapter nineteen [Meleagar is correct - CS], before he got killed. Instead, there was his ‘barrel’ chest and then, oh, he’s dead.
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Harpalus
Bear in mind, old boy, that we were seeing the events unfold through Orestes’ eyes. In effect, we are hidden in the privy with him; if he sees little, therefore, so do we. I don’t think the story would have suffered if Ms Gill had given us a detailed description of Agamemnon but I think the fact that she didn’t gives the narrative greater authenticity - within the obvious limits.
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Leonnatus
If I may take the conversation in a slightly different direction—
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As soon as Leonnatus said this, Seleucus called for a vote on whether he - Leonnatus - should indeed be allowed to take the conversation in a different direction. Strictly speaking this vote was uncalled for as Leonnatus was plainly just being polite but he took the vote in good spirits; the members voted unanimously for Leonnatus to do as he wished.
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Leonnatus
Thank you, all! Well, what I was going to say was that the two major deaths aside, I was most taken by the earthquake. It had a relevance both within the book and beyond - for wasn’t it an earthquake that eventually destroyed Mycenaean civilisation?
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Everyone looked round at one another; wine and beer was drunk and pipes lit. With no one being knowledgeable about the history of Mycenae, and with mobile phones and iPads/other tablets being banned from use during club meetings we could not check up to see what did happen to Mycenae.
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Leonnatus
I think I am right; I hope so because when historical novels coincide with historical events, in my opinion, that gives them an extra depth, and in this case, poignancy.
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Theban Al
Depth! Oh very good, Leonnatus, very good! That is the word I was looking for. I found depth in the coming together of myth and reality. Well, I have to be careful here. In this book, there is no myth. Our myth is their reality so like you I am speaking as a reader not from within the book, so’s to speak. Anyway, what I was thinking of was the way Ms Gill not only references - or gives us - Agamemnon, Achilles, and Odysseus who are real people within the context of the story, but also Jason and the Argonauts who for me are not [real people - CS] even though within the story they are. Does that make sense? Oh dear. I fear I have confused everyone.
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Harpalus
Not at all, old chap, I think I know what you mean. Agamemnon is ‘real’ because he is Orestes’ father, therefore is very close to the reality of the book, which is Orestes’ story. Jason doesn’t feel real because he is of the past in terms of Orestes’ narrative. When he gets referenced, therefore, it gives the story greater depth because we - or rather, Orestes - are stepping outside reality and into the past. It’s really just the same difference between you telling me about your immediate family and then your great grandparents. The former gives you a certain depth to me, while the latter increases it because I enter more deeply into your identity.
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Theban Al
Yes!
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Harpalus’ ability to untangle Theban Al’s thought was commended by Seleucus and he (Harpalus) was voted an extra beer from the kitty.
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Peucestas
We have had an interesting discussion this evening. Before bringing it to a close, I should like to raise a couple more points. Firstly, as you all know, I am rather a fan of Top Gear - don’t laugh Amyntas of Pella - so I have to say that I rather liked the chariot scene in Chapter Eleven. It is no Bugatti Veyron, and it was good to read a little about how difficult they were to control. Take that, Ben Hur! Also, in the same chapter, Orestes confronts Aegisthus’ spy Euryalos; I read this chapter to my father who, as you all know, is blind. He asked me to tell you that the spy-scene put him in mind of le Carré whom he adores.
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Seleucus
That’s splendid, Peucestas; give your father our best, he is a good man. I’ll never forget the help he gave me in my first year.
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All the members shouted hear hear and thumped the table with their beer glasses. A vote was taken on how good Peucestas’ father was, and it was declared that he was the best of men.
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Peucestas
You are all awfully kind, awfully kind; I must say, though, that father did not have much time for Euryalos. ‘George Smiley would have had him out of the Circus in no time!’.
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Laughter of members, pipes lit.
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Seleucus
As I started the meeting, I will finish it. I would like to vote for porena being the Word Of The Night. I had no idea that the Mycenaeans kept slaves for the specific purpose of being sacrificed. Well, that may just be Ms Gill’s invention but it is a chilling idea. Imagine living in the knowledge that one day you would be killed! Horrid. However, I must say that I am glad that they have been included; I can’t remember if we said this before, but we should not shirk from the fact that Orestes - or whoever the real Orestes was - lived in an age that to us would have been a very dark and primitive time.
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Theban Al
Maybe - just maybe - we will head back there one day; isn’t it a concern that if we ever clone humans we might use them to provide us with spare limbs and what not. That would make a good film.
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Peucestas
It already has, Theban Al, it was called The Island. I concur with what the President said, though; I’m glad that Ms Gill has not avoided those horrible aspects of the past. Of course, we don’t need it in our faces but neither should we pretend that it is not there.
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The members relit their pipes and drank their beer and a vote was taken on the Word of the Night. Porena was approved. A second vote on Scene of the Night. Rather surprisingly, this was won by Agamemnon’s death scene on account of his final words, ‘Orestes… avenge…’ which set up not just the rest of this book but the next book as well.

Mieza. Did Alexander kiss Hephaestion here? In between of reading and studying, very likely.

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• Orestes: The Young Lion is available to buy in various formats. Here it is at Amazon.
• If you know of a book that the Mieza Book Club should read, let us know in the comments box

Read the Introduction to the Mieza Book Club here
Thee previous minutes of the Mieza Book Club can be found here

Orestes: The Young Lion
by Laura Gill
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Chapter Six to Ten
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At 7pm sharp, the meeting was called to order by club president Seleucus. Members were asked if they had their copies of Orestes: The Young Lion with them. For the second week running, Amyntas of Pella and Amyntas of Aegae didn’t, so were voted by a show of hands to be tonight’s designated drivers. Amyntas of Pella sulked. Again.
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The original intention had been to discuss chapters six to fifteen; that we only made it up to chapter ten in the course of this meeting is a credit to Laura Gill’s penmanship. Or should that be penwomanship? Or even penpersonship? I expect that is what they say in the Labour Party. But it is not what we say in the MBC, which - if the members were with me as I write up the introduction - would probably be ‘Get on with the review of this book’. So let’s get (on with it).
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Meleagar “In the sixth chapter of the book Orestes barfs. I know it is a serious moment but it made me smile as it rather reminded me of my first year up. I attended a party in my tutor’s room, got a little tight, and threw up in the stairs. My sister saw me; frightfully embarrassing.”
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Seleucus “That was a dashed silly thing to do. Who was the tutor? Not Prissy Perkins, I hope.”
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Meleagar “Oh God no; Mrs Randall. Lovely creature.”
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A short discussion on members’ tutors followed. A vote was taken and they were all declared (with the exception of Professor Crutwell who is well known to be beastly) to be good eggs.
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Leonnatus “I am stil captivated by the knowledge of where the story is heading. I spoke about it to a fellow during the week who said, ‘But doesn’t it make the story dull knowing that Orestes and Elektra will one day kill Clytaemnestra?’ and I had to say, ‘no, old chap, no more than a car crash is less tense or shocking because you saw the two cars approaching each other’.
….. ”By retelling a well known story, Gill can’t make use of the suspense of the mystery, but it doesn’t matter because she is very good at capturing the suspense of the moment.”
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Seleucus “I say, that is an excellent turn of phrase, Leo’. ‘Suspense of mystery’ and ‘suspense of the moment’. I shall have to remember that.”
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Several members murmured ‘here, here’ to Seleucus’ response
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Alexander of Epirus “Last week my first comment was a rather flippant one so I shall make up for that with something a little earnest this time. It is on the issue of verisimilitude, which our dear leader mentioned last week; I simply love Ms Gill’s references to Mycenaean culture and life. Especially of the sword smith at work. I know they are secondary to the actual story but in a sense it is those moments that make the story. If that makes sense.”
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Harpalus “For someone with no practical ability at all, Alexander, I am surprised to hear you say that!”
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Laughter at Harpalus’ comment but there were nods of agreement around the table at what Alexander of Epirus said. The motion ‘This group approves of Laura Gill’s use of verisimilitude” was passed unanimously.
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Harpalus “Further to what Alexander said, and again, to go back to what I said last week, I was pleased to see the reference in Chapter Ten to Herakles as a real man. Philaretos says his father saw him.”
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Alexander of Epirus “He doesn’t exactly cut a heroic figure, though, does he. How does Ms Gill describe him? Here it is: “A great big man, with yellow teeth… bloodshot eyes, and wearing a lion skin smelling like goat piss”!
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Seleucus “We could accuse Ms Gill of being ever-so modern in bringing the gods down to our level but the fact is that in the ancient texts the Greek gods could be very human in their behaviour sometimes; for example, they got angry, hateful, and lustful just like we do.”
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Peucestas “The desire to reduce God or the gods to our level seems to me to be an enduring habit of human beings. For example, chaps at chapel who think less of Our Lord and more of My Mate.”
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Theban Al “I have two points to make. Firstly, I was struck in the tenth chapter how Orestes says he ate game - alright - and drunk wine. I have to admit I’m a little confused as to how old he is at this point - between 7 and 14? - but I was dashed impressed that he was drinking wine already. That may just be me; I didn’t start drinking alcohol until I was 16 or 17.”
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Seleucus “I was under the impression that Orestes is still seven or eight at that point. On the matter of the wine, don’t forget that wine in antiquity would - I believe - have been much weaker than ours, and much safer to drink than water for want of purifying plants.”
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Theban Al “I take your point. My second one was to commend another good turn of phrase by Ms Gill. Clytaemnestra asks Orestes if he would like to ‘wear a curse as [his] crown’. Very effective.”
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Murmurs of approval at this comment from the members. Pipes lit. Amyntas of Pella took money from the kitty to buy the next round of beers.
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Peucestas “I would like to nominate this week’s Scene of the Night. Like Alexander I enjoyed the sword smith scene; Kleitos ‘braining’ the poor hare was also quite a moment, but on a serious level, Orestes entering Agamemnon’s quarters and finding it to be in a state of desolation was brilliant. I was completely expecting him to walk into a grand, gold shining, silver burnished, jewelly chamber, but no - bird droppings, broken furniture and peeling walls. Bang went my expectations. First class.”
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Theban Al “I second that - the scene was powerful not just because it was surprising but for what it tells us about Clytaemnestra. I also liked the fact that it is not just a one-off moment; Orestes finds the pieces of pottery and sets about reconstructing it.”
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After Amyntas of Pella came back from the bar with our beers and his Coke Cola, we took a vote on the Scene of the Night; Orestes in his father’s room was selected against stiff opposition, it has to be said, from Orestes’ fight with Hippasos, which reminded several members of their school days. Further to this, the word of the night was ‘killkillkill!’ as being both funny and chilling.
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The Club President Writes:
“On behalf of the MBC I should like to thank Alexander’s Other Secretary for agreeing to publish these edited minutes. We don’t publish the full ones because our meetings generally last all evening and nearly always descend into ribald conversation later on that is really not fit for a blog.
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I should also like to thank Ms Gill for her comment after out first post, and clarification on her correct title.
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Last, but most certainly not least, thank you to you the reader for taking the time out of your day to read this. I hope you find our minutes interesting and entertaining.”
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Mieza. Where Aristotle taught and a collection of students found something better than football to talk about: books.

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• Orestes: The Young Lion is available to buy in various formats. Here it is at Amazon.
• If you know of a book that the Mieza Book Club should read, let us know in the comments box

For previous Mieza Book Club minutes click here

Orestes: The Young Lion
by Laura Gill
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Chapters One to Five
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At 7pm sharp, the meeting was called to order by club president Seleucus. Members were asked if they had copies of Orestes: The Young Lion. Amyntas of Pella and Amyntas of Aegae didn’t, so were voted by a show of hands to be tonight’s designated drivers. Amyntas of Pella sulked.
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It is traditional for the club president to give a short biographical account of the author before discussion of their book begins. “Unfortunately,” he said, standing up, “I know rather sod all about Miss Gill. She maybe a Mrs or even a Ms as she is American but who knows?”. Seleucus asked for the words ‘sod all’ to be replaced by ‘very little’ in the minutes but this request was shouted down.
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In lieu of any known facts (other than those presented at the back of the book) about the author, Seleucus gave way to Meleager who exercised his right as the chooser of the book to explain his reasons for doing so. “I have always been fascinated by the story of Orestes,” he said, “Or rather, Orestes in relation to his big sister, Elektra. It probably comes from having a big sister myself - one who wasn’t afraid to put me in my place when need be.” he added, rubbing his arm, meaningfully. Murmurs of sympathy went round the room, and several pipes were lit.
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Meleager sat down and the floor was declared open.
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Leonnatus ”I liked the tension between Clytaemnestra and Agamemnon at the beginning very much. Knowing what happens between them (Lysimachus shouted ‘No spoilers!’ but was being ironic) later it gave the opening scene a very threatening air that is only increased in the next few chapters every time either Clytaemnestra or Aegisthus appear on the page.”
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A brief discussion on Gill’s protrayal of Clytaemnestra and Aegisthus followed and it was agreed that she makes very good use of the limited space that she gives herself at the start of the book (22 pages cover the first five chapters). When the discussion began to degenerate into an analysis of ancient Greek sexual mores, Seleucus called the meeting to order.
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Alexander of Epirus ”I thought the ‘flute boy’ reference on the first page was funny as that is a euphemism for blow job.”
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Seleucus “Enough sex! I would like to say something about Iphigenia. My goodness, one minute she is there, and the next - dead! That was a horrible scene. So sudden.”
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Polemon “Dear boy, are you saying you would have preferred her death to have been written in greater detail?”
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Seleucus “Not at all; in fact, given how suddenly death can come upon us, I thought Gill pitched Iphigenia’s demise perfectly and in a sense most realistically. I tell you, though, it took me no few minutes to get to sleep on the evening I read it. Say what you want about the Coalition Government, at least they don’t have child sacrifices when it is not windy.”
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An unknown member then muttered he wouldn’t put it past the Government to announce such a thing as part of its austerity measures (“Fewer children, more money for the rest of us”). Red Amyntas demanded that this be put to a vote and the motion ‘We believe that David Cameron would sacrifice children to repair the British economy’ was passed by a majority vote. It is believed* (*hoped) that all members except Red Amyntas voted ironically or at least under the influence of wine.
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Theban Al “To go back to the business of Iphigenia, I must say I was very affected by the ‘appearance’ of the ghostly children. I thought Gill wrote that scene wonderfully well. It rather reminded me of Turn of the Screw. God, that book scared me. Especially since I read it when we lived in a vicarage which I am sure was haunted on the top floor.”
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Perdiccas “A haunted vicarage? I bet your father could not have been pleased by that. Rather damaging to the old theology, hm?”
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Theban Al “Oh well, of course, as far as he was concerned it wasn’t. He thought the scratching was probably rats.”
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Amyntas of Philippi “I agree with Theban Al. It was a wonderfully scary scene. What really made it work, though, was the way Timon told Orestes about it. His reluctance to do so and the tension of the scene really sucked me in; I completely felt like I was there with them. A great scene.”
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Perdiccas “Perhaps you and Theban Al were the ghostly children playing!”
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Perdiccas’ comment received much laughter, and he was declared a good show by all-and-sundry. The wine carafe was passed round the room and several pipes were relit.
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Harpalus “What I really want to know is - are the gods going to turn up later on? I really, really want them, to do so! Artemis is referred to in a way that suggests she is real but we don’t see the Olympians at the beginning. I need for this book to extinguish the memory of Troy in my mind.
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Harpalus was immediately called up on his use of the phrase ‘need for’; he agreed that it was a reprehensible Americanism and apologised before a vote could be taken to make him the next meeting’s designated driver. The meeting continued.
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Theban Al “The one thing I wasn’t sure about was the way in which the narrator spells the characters’ names one way, but when Orestes writes them down we see them written according to - I assume - how the Mycenaeans wrote them. For instance, Orestes became O-re-ta. That created a disconnection between the narrator’s voice and the voice of the character for me.”
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Seleucus “I rather liked that. For me it was a good piece of verisimilitude. On the matter of words, the only discordant note for me was when Elektra refers to Aegisthus’ ‘oily’ smile. While it is certainly an evocative word, it isn’t one that she would have used as the Mycenaeans didn’t know what oil was - or did they?”
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This question was put to the Club and no one knew so the meeting continued. It was then discovered that the word ‘oily’ appears in Chapter Six so we should not have even been talking about it.
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Harpalus “I should like to nominate word of the night ‘ostrakon’. It appears in chapter five. An ostrakon was a portsherd that the Greeks used to vote with. It’s one of those words that you see for the first time and it is like an old friend meeting you.”
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Amyntas of Pella “It sounds more like a heavy metal band to me.”
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Theban Al “Scene of the night - definitely Timon telling Orestes about the ghostly children. Narrowly beating the tale of how Atreus fed Thyestes’ children to him.”
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Peucestas “Did you ever watch Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistlestop Café?“
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Amyntas of Pella ”DON’T read Medea!”
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Votes were taken on the Word and Scene of the Night and passed, as above. The formal discussion ended and the informal discussion (unminuted) began.
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Peucestas
(Club Secretary)

• Read the introduction to the Mieza Book Club here
• Orestes is available to buy in various formats, including here at Amazon
• If you know of a book that the Mieza Book Club should review do let us know in the comments box

The Israelites sat down by the rivers of Babylon and wept; we sat down in Mieza and discussed books. And drank wine. Lots.

Welcome to the first blog post of the Mieza Book Club. Founded on a cold night in the Greek countryside a few years ago by some travelling British students who got lost on their way to Naousa’s wine museum, the MBC is named after the village where Aristotle taught Alexander and his friends.
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The aim of the Mieza Book Club has always been to emulate the great philosopher’s love of knowledge through an in-depth discussion of a wide variety of texts from antiquity. We hope that you find our discussions in these posts both informative and entertaining, perhaps even worthy of citation in essays and at lectures.
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You will notice that in the reviews, the members’ identities remain hidden. The reason for this is that when the group of friends who would become the MBC left England, they agreed upon a policy of ‘what goes on tour, stays on tour’. Thus, the minutes of the first few meetings, carried out during the holiday, contain only pseudonyms. After the group’s return to England, the use of pseudonyms was continued, firstly for reasons of practicality, then later as a matter of tradition.
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Further to the above, I would add that originally, names were chosen from throughout Greek history - Mycenae to Cleopatra VII - before it was discovered that the Greeks (like the Romans) diluted their wine. Then, by a unanimous vote, it was decided that in future, names would be picked from known members of Alexander’s army - with the king himself being excluded out of respect for his divinity and greatness as a general.
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In concluding, I should like - on behalf of the MBC - to thank ‘Alexander’s Other Secretary’ for allowing us to present our reports on his blog. We hope that our presence here will be beneficially not only to the club but also to The Second Achilles itself.
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Peucestas
(Club Secretary)

• The above photograph comes from the Livius website
• For a list of Mieza Book Club minutes click here